[Scpg] -SBOrgGdn- Re: is ice plant a good edible permaculture plant?

Mon Sep 7 11:08:19 PDT 2009

I see both sides of this argument.  I would say ice plant is a good "armageddon plant", one that we could resort to eating when/if all else fails... I have not taken the time to prepare Ice plant, but I have tasted it raw and my intuition is probly not too tasty.

I too would discourage planting any more unless it was used as a colonizer on loose soils, where it can be easily removed and used to build soil and terraces.  I have done this over the last 10 years at my Dad's house, removing an acre of the stuff...  The drawbacks is that the seeds can last a while and the plant harbors snails, lots of em (guess we could eat those too?)

It would be a good roof plant, since it grows so fast.  Bees love it too.  Alternatively, there are natives that may perform similar functions, like california fuschia or purple nightshade.

Loren Luyendyk
(805) 452-8249
www.sborganics.com
www.surferswithoutborders.org

To: johnvalenzuela at myway.com; scpg at arashi.com; sbperm2006 at googlegroups.com; sbogc at yahoogroups.com; sbfoodfuture at googlegroups.com
From: LBUZZELL at aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 11:47:53 -0400
Subject: -SBOrgGdn- Re: [Scpg] is ice plant a good edible permaculture plant?

Thanks, John, for your thoughts on this.  I'm hoping to get a little 
discussion going on this topic, as I wonder if some of our current thinking on 
invasive species and native plants might not be worth a second look from a 
permaculture point of view.  

With climate change, the range of our native species is already shifting 
and in our permaculture and garden designs we'll be needing to include species 
that can perform many functions for us, including vigor and edibility.  
Here in our area, the native species would probably not feed the current 
population even if the climate were stable, so looking around for 
permaculture-friendly species is, I think, a worthwhile endeavor.  

Of course iceplant may not pass the tests of desirability, but so far apart 
from the idea that it might displace native species, I've not heard too many 
good arguments against it apart from criticisms of its taste.  My own 
research found that one could make "delicious" jam from  its fruits -- is 
this not true?  Also apparently some species of iceplant are more tasty 
than others, so as with any edible plant, we'd need to select for taste.

If iceplant isn't the succulent of choice (and in our increasingly dry 
climate we definitely can use some succulents for various purposes, including 
living, moisture-retaining mulch), can someone recommend another succulent 
that is edible and easy to grow?

I was especially intrigued with the idea of using it for green roots 
because of its shallow roots.  If nothing else, it might offer excellent 
insulation, and on a roof it certainly isn't displacing native plants!

Thanks for the good discussion,

Linda

In a message dated 9/6/2009 2:30:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, 
johnvalenzuela at hotmail.com writes:
Linda, 
  your useful information and propositions concerning iceplant have really got 
  me going on a little rant here!

Iceplant is barely edible to me, 
  definitely not a 'good edible permaculture plant'. Our grandparents may have 
  found iceplant quite useful, but many of them were not aware of the value of 
  native plants in thier ethnobotanical and wildlife habitat functions, as many 
  of us are still not aware of today.

Wow! With all the useful, uniquely 
  native, and other relatively non-invasive plants to promote, are we 
  entertaining the idea of planting something that we all have all observed 
  spreading locally and creating huge monocultures, even taking over some 
  relatively stable native coastal plant communities? OK, it may be a very 
  interesting and useful plant, but it doesn't mean we have to plant it, to use 
  it- Don't we have enough of it to use already? From my perspective, planting 
  iceplant would be a lazy choice. For others, do the cost/benefit analysis and 
  compare to other plant options (and combinations) to see what your best 
  choices might be.

from the website you linked to 
  (http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantcd/carpobed.htm):
Conservation 
  status
Carpobrotus edulis is not regarded as threatened in its native 
  habitat, but it is invading natural areas in other parts of the world and 
  threatening the survival of other species. In California, where it has been 
  used since the early 1900s to stabilize the soil along railway tracks and 
  roadsides and as a garden ornamental, it has naturalized and is invading 
  coastal vegetation from north of Eureka to Rosarita Bay. It is known as the 
  highway ice plant in the USA. 

from another source:
There is 
  evidence that iceplant also competes indirectly with native species. It has 
  been reported that iceplant can lower soil pH and also affect the root 
  morphology of some native shrubs (D'Antonio, 1990a; D'Antonio and Mahall, 
  1991). It is also possible, because iceplant does not seem to be palatable to 
  most native herbivores, that its presence could increase browsing pressure on 
  native flora and influence the species composition of herbivorous fauna. (3) 
  Invasion by the alien succulent, C. edulis , has become a common occurrence 
  after fire in maritime chaparral

also see: 

(http://www.cal-ipc.org/ip/management/ipcw/pages/detailreport.cfm@usernumber=25&surveynumber=182.php)

I 
  am definitely not suggesting that I only use natives in my plantings, but come 
  on! Let's be a little more creative than planting something that can actually 
  lower bio-diversity, like ice plant does! 

Now having gotten all that 
  out, Thank you for all the useful information on iceplant, as I am actually 
  quite interested in the many uses of locally invasive (well adapted), or 
  overly planted, seemingly useless landscape plants, (such as Agapanthus, or 
  the various shrubs known as Broom). Considering all the qualities that were 
  noted, perhaps it's economic values can be used as an incentive to harvest and 
  remove it, to fund replacement with a more diverse, locally unique, and 
  productive assembly of plants. If the plant selection criteria is to have some 
  fire resistant, good tasting fruit and medicinal uses, how about some 
  diversity plantings, starting with native prickly pear and some Aloe spp., 
  Agave spp., and so many others. . .?   Rather than more of the same 
  old-monoculture, lets plan for more diversity and complexity of 
  relationships!

be fruitful-
John V.

Cornucopia 
  Kitchen Gardens and Food Forests
John Valenzuela Permaculture 
  Services
Horticulturist, Consultant, Educator- 
California, 
  Hawai'i  phone: (415) 246-8834 
e-mail: 
  johnvalenzuela at hotmail.com

  From: LBUZZELL at aol.com
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:34:14 -0400
To: 
  Scpg at arashi.com; sbperm2006 at googlegroups.com; sbogc at yahoogroups.com; 
  sbfoodfuture at googlegroups.com
Subject: [Scpg] is ice plant a good edible 
  permaculture plant?

  Iceplant (Carpobrotus edulis aka Hottentot Fig) has a bad 
  reputation in California these days, although its usefulness was 
  much valued by our grandparents' generation.  It's an 
  attractive, low-growing groundcover plant now considered invasive and 
  governments are spending a lot of money ripping it out and replacing it 
  with native plants.

  But perhaps from a permaculture point of view it's worth another look? 
  It's an amazing plant that performs multiple useful functions. 

    Yields an edible fruit which has been eaten by humans 
    since archeological times. Fruit is fleshy, 35 mm in diameter, shaped 
    like a spinning top, on a winged stalk, becoming yellow and fragrant when 
    ripe. The outer wall of the fruit becomes yellowish, wrinkled and leathery 
    with age. The seeds are embedded in the sticky, sweet, jelly-like mucilage. 
    The fruits can be eaten fresh and they have a strong, astringent, salty, 
    sour taste. They are not as tasty as those of C. 
    acinaciformis (purple iceplant, can be used to make delicious jam) 
    and C. deliciosus (purple or pink iceplant) which are sweeter. See 
    http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantcd/carpobed.htm  

    Edible by some wildlife as well. Flowers draw bees and 
    are also eaten by animals. In S. Africa, leaves are eaten by tortoises. 

    Holds water and thus is an effective fire-resistant 
    barrier around house or in foothills in fire-prone areas. 

    Drought tolerant 
    A coastal plant 
    Low maintenance. Vigorous and will grow where 
    little else wants to grow 
    Wind resistant 
    Controls erosion by binding hillsides, stabilizing 
    sandy dunes. 
    Shallow-rooting so good for roof gardens 
    Like most succulents, a useful "living mulch" 
    groundcover. 
    "Can be planted on flat, sandy ground, on loose sand dunes, gravelly 
    gardens, lime-rich and brackish soils as well as in containers, rockeries, 
    embankments and will cascade over terrace walls."  
    Pretty yellow flowers and attractive rusty coloration 
    even when not in bloom (you can see its autumnal-toned beauty in many 
    paintings of coastal California scenes). 
    Has medicinal uses and is a first-aid plant. "The leaf 
    juice is astringent and mildly antiseptic. It is mixed with water and 
    swallowed to treat diarrhea, dysentery and stomach cramps, and is used as a 
    gargle to relieve laryngitis, sore throat and mouth infections. Chewing a 
    leaf tip and swallowing the juice is enough to ease a sore throat. Leaf 
    juice or a crushed leaf is a famous soothing cure for blue-bottle stings - 
    being a coastal plant it is luckily often on hand in times of such 
    emergencies. The leaf juice is used as a soothing lotion for burns, bruises, 
    scrapes, cuts, grazes and sunburn, ringworm, eczema, dermatitis, sunburn, 
    herpes, nappy rash, thrush, cold sores, cracked lips, chafing, skin 
    conditions and allergies...The leaf juice also relieves the itch from 
    mosquito, tick and spider bites both for people and their animal 
    companions. In the Eastern Cape of South africa it is also used to 
    treat diabetes and diptheria."
  So what do you think?  It is worth another look?  Could this be 
  a useful plant for various garden and permaculture designs? Or should it be 
  shunned as uncontrollable?

  Linda

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